origen01 Says:

Nov 4, 2008 - You totally misread my statement. Fighting to preserve the Union is a reaction to secession. Why did the southern states secede? Because Lincoln won the 1860 election. Yeah, I was exaggerating when I said he was a "prominent" abolitionist, but he did always oppose the expansion of slavery into the new territories which was the central grievance southerners had with Republicans. Oh yea, and wut caused the Long Depression of the late 19th century?

runleonrun Says:

Nov 4, 2008 - So why is secession wrong? The 13 colonies seceded from Great Britain. And there were many causes of the Long Depression...greenbacks that were issued during the "Civil" War, overbuilding of rairoads, lack of gold to back said greenbacks...

origen01 Says:

Nov 5, 2008 - why was there a lack of gold to back the greenbacks in circulation?

runleonrun Says:

Nov 5, 2008 - I just told you. Greenbacks were issued during the Civil War, and their quantity became greater than that which could be backed by gold. There was too much paper money to be backed by all of the gold in the country.

origen01 Says:

Nov 5, 2008 - yeah, but there was no need to have the greenbacks redeemable for gold--it was true fiat. problems only occurred when the US went go on the gold standard--which was a response to trends in international trade. deflationary crises were directly linked with drops in gold commodity prices (consider the massive increase in demand for gold & the 30yr rut between the major gold booms of the 19th century). deflationary pressures were immediately felt worldwide so u can't blame it all on the greenback

runleonrun Says:

Nov 5, 2008 - Yes, I suppose you are right.

origen01 Says:

Nov 6, 2008 - Extreme and unpredictable fluctuations in money supply would be common in a commodity backed currency system that does not rely on a central bank. With the Federal Reserve, deflation during the Great Depression was severe, but it was corrected after only 3 yrs in conjunction with expansionary fiscal policy (compared to the 23 yrs of the late 19th century)

LUEcifer Says:

Nov 27, 2008 - Be that as it may, a gold or silver backed currency system has a more steady value than the federal reserve system money we have now. Yes, there are fluctuations in the gold redeemable or silver redeemable dollar. However, these fluctuations can be either an increase in value or a decrease in value. Ever since the inception of the fed, the value of the US dollar has steadily gone DOWN. It's a fraudulent system, and is NO different from what Soviet Russia did or what the confederacy did.

origen01 Says:

Nov 27, 2008 - "Ever since the inception of the fed, the value of the US dollar has steadily gone DOWN." how do u measure that statement? do u compare the $ to commodity prices? how do u know that commodities aren't overpriced? Do u compare the $ to other currencies? If so, the $ has not been steadily going down--look at its rally for the past couple months. I'm sorry, but we are in a deflationary period to rival the Gr8t Depression and ur worried about the $'s overvalue?! We can't simply do nothing.

origen01 Says:

Nov 28, 2008 - "I think currently, the only politician making any sense is Gordon Brown (wow... I never thought I'd say that!) - his plan to stabilise the banking system and inject liquidity into the market by buying a £50bn stake in the biddest banks will likely be copied in the EU. Alistair Darling, the chancellor, has produced a well-judged package..." thank God you have a brain and know economics! but, frankly, even with the best plan we are going to face hard times.

LUEcifer Says:

Nov 28, 2008 - You measure that statement by doing simple price comparisons of commodities in the past vs prices of commodities in the present. In the 1950's for example, you could go to the grocery store with about 5 dollars and come out with several bags of groceries. Today, you go into a grocery store with 5 bucks and are lucky if you come out with more than one or two items. I'm not worried about the dollar's overvalue, I'm worried about how worthless the dollar is becoming. It's paper. Nothing more.

origen01 Says:

Nov 28, 2008 - Inflation is a natural phenomenon u matter what ur currency system is--u can't blame that on central banking. What I meant by the overvalue statement is that u believe the $ is highly inflated. I can assure that at this very moment it is not. U know how much money the Tres. is pumping into foreign currencies to stabilize the world economy? Inflation should be the last thing on our minds--if u believe this correction is necessary u have no idea how bad it could get without govt intervention.

LUEcifer Says:

Nov 28, 2008 - Do you even know what inflation is? You keep saying overvalue, which leads me to believe that you don't. Inflation, in a nutshell, means that the more money you print the less valuable the rest of the money in the system is worth. The term inflation refers to the price of goods, IE food/gasoline/etc. The price goes UP, because the dollar value is LOWER. Inflation is not a natural phenomenon in all currency systems. If that were true, explain how a barter system could experience it.

origen01 Says:

Nov 29, 2008 - "Do you even know what inflation is? You keep saying overvalue, which leads me to believe that you don't wow. you are totally right! GOODS and SERVICES are overvalued in an inflationary period and not the currency. DUH! its like macro101. i need to find my brain. can i get a mulligan on my argument?

origen01 Says:

Nov 29, 2008 - You are right but I question the assertion that bartering is a form of established currency--how do you run a nation-state on that system?

LUEcifer Says:

Nov 29, 2008 - Goods and services will ALWAYS be needed. The demand for these will remain fairly constant. People will always need to eat, have shelter, fuel their vehicles, etc. That's not overvalue, thats currency LOSING value. Are you daft? If goods and services are the thing that gets inflated, how the hell do you explain people in soviet russia needing wheelbarrows of currency for a loaf of bread during the collapse of the soviet union? Is Russian bread worth more than any other bread?

LUEcifer Says:

Nov 29, 2008 - Bartering is the oldest form of "currency" in the world. It's pure supply and demand. "I need bananas, but I have goats. My neighbor needs goat milk and has bananas. Let's trade." There's no complicated as all hell departments that regulate everything, the consumer controls the value. Our current currency system is a trust system, all of which that have ever been implemented throughout history have failed. Currency needs to be redeemable for tangible wealth, not empty words.

origen01 Says:

Nov 29, 2008 - goods and services are overpriced in an inflationary period. its the hallmark characterization of inflation. just look at the CPI

origen01 Says:

Nov 29, 2008 - like i said, bartering cannot be used by the nation-state economies.

LUEcifer Says:

Nov 29, 2008 - If that were the case then how come you are avoiding the example I used of Soviet Russia? A loaf of bread is a loaf of bread is a loaf of bread, etc. The value of the good wasn't overpriced during that period, the money was just worthless. How can you be so blind to what's really happening to the US dollar?

LUEcifer Says:

Nov 29, 2008 - True, but using a currency that is backed by a tangible substance can be used. I was using the bartering example to show you that not all economic systems experience inflation.

origen01 Says:

Nov 30, 2008 - God. you really took me to school on the "overvalue"/"overpriced" statement i made. i apologize for such a foolish statement. i wish youtube had a delete button for comments sometimes cause this really makes me look bad.

origen01 Says:

Nov 30, 2008 - Inflation is caused simply by an increase in money supply. A commodity backed currency is not exempt as it is also subject to increases in supply (e.g. Gold Rushes). They do indeed protect against govt. overspending and hyperinflation--but as I brought up in a an earlier post economies frequently face deflationary periods when the supply of the commodity dries up.

LUEcifer Says:

Nov 30, 2008 - You're basically telling me what I've been saying all along. Of course commodity backed currency experiences periods of inflation/deflation, but the value can fluctuate in either direction. The trust system we have now will ALWAYS devalue our dollar. 700 billion dollar bailout anyone?

ttpmvo Says:

Dec 1, 2008 - money is not backed by anything thing its legal tender therefore its worthless paper the goverment keeps making to control the public end of story